Three dozen jumbo eggs and six cakes later all attempts at genoise collapse in the center while baking. This is following directions explicitly, directions varying cook to cook as they do, one sees the full range of possibilities in examples provided on Youtube, the range of possibilities is quite broad in recipes online and in books. They all say basically the same thing. Forums on collapsing genoise cakes specifically ALL SAY THE SAME THING and NONE of it is helpful.
Mind, this is occurring in Denver. High altitude.
None address high altitude baking and necessary adjustments. None address adding a little more flour for structure or increasing initial temperature to compensate. None of the forums suggest anything useful. Not one.
I don't want to hear about under beating the batter.
I don't want to hear about over beating the batter.
I did both of those things with the same result.
I don't want to hear about beating for insufficient length of time, that it must be at least five minutes.
Nor about beating on too high to foam.
I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR about opening the oven door. I never did that. Not even to check. I can smell when the cake is done.
Nor about oven temperature certainty. I am certain about my oven temperature.
Or about the temperature of the batter itself. I use a precise thermometer and tried all different temperatures, using hot water to soak eggs first, and using bain-marie to control temperature of eggs precisely.
Nor of the temperature of eggs starting out. I tried the entire range.
Nor about deflating the batter
Nor about how to fold flour into batter
Not about beurre nicoisse what it means, how to make it, or about how to get it into the batter, I've seen and done it six different ways. (including previous trials) I've omitted it. I've used oil instead. I've used my hands, a flexible scraper, a rubber spatula, a bulb whisk.
I've tried cool oven up to baking temperature.
I've preheated oven, obviously.
I've tried super preheated oven for shock.
I've tried a nail in the center to bring heat to the middle.
I've tried different sizes and shapes of pans.
I don't want to hear or read about trimming the cake and using it anyway.
I don't want to hear about how good the collapsed cake tastes nor how well it works.
Everything I've tried over a few trials including six today all collapse the same way as shown.
If there appear any comments suggesting anything trite, anything I can see for myself over fifteen YouTube videos and dozens of websites and several books, and now six more trials in one day trying all I can think of and all the same result, seeing it done successfully and explained in French and in Spanish and in Sign seeing it all performed successfully by, let's face it, not especially the brightest bulbs in the kitchen, dummkopfs actually, at sea-level, and all different ways with differing amounts and varying number of eggs, then those suggestions no matter how well intended will be deleted with extreme prejudice. And please, no sympathy, it's patronizing. And I don't want to hear your ease of successes either. I've already seen hundreds by functional idiots.
One thing I haven't tried is baking it in a pressure pot. And I'm tempted to try that.
I'm tempted to call Denver bakeries that offer genoise and ask them directly, wtf? Are you importing or what? I notice Brown Palace uses baking powder, a definite no-no, and it rated only three stars.
Other than that, I must say, the batter is incredible. Such a shame it doesn't work. With vanilla added the batter tastes like marshmallow fluff. Except better. It is a very good-tasting batter with amazingly inviting soft texture. It's worth making just for the delicious extraordinary fluffy batter. Something can be done with it at high altitude if not a regular cake. It holds up well, it could be piped into ring discs and baked then stacked.
The goal is use the delicious batter to produce a layered Boston cream pie type cake. One way or another. I like this batter.
5 comments:
King Arthur Flour has some advice about high altitude baking: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipe/high-altitude-baking.html. You may already have considered all of these, but just in case. One of the things rhey mention that was the first thing that occurred to me is to try a higher gluten flour to provide more structure. Good luck.
No sympathy but shared frustration! Made Boston cream pie in June with two Genoise and it worked brilliantly. Simple recipe 4 eggs 120 gm sugar 120 gm flour - bain marie etc. So I decided to make it again today. Even bought a kenwood cooking chef and this was to be the christening. Three cakes later and I am sitting here googling who else had their cakes collapse in the middle. Tossed two out and now desperately contemplating whether to bother with the pastry cream - but I still might. My wife looked up her betty bossi cake cook book and came back defiantly declaring our jumbo eggs too big. Not sure but next week I will try again and then again until I get it right. I will check you blog and lets see you crack this first, or simply who cracks first.
I've just made 2 genoise sponge cakes and both came out looking like yours. Was feeling defeated and about to head to bed when I came across this post: http://www.chefeddy.com/2010/02/high-altitude-baking/. Think will try again tomorrow with less beating of eggs and sugar and increasing the amount of flour... Hope it works out! Did you ever try again? I know this is kinda late but hope it helps!
Yes, Nikita. The next post. The next day. I tried the pressure pot stovetop and that works brilliantly. (Mine dripped from the lid but that can be prevented or diverted)
So, stovetop not baked. And pressure. I've seen more cooks on tv fail because they couldn't handle the altitude at Aspen. tsk tsk tsk. Lately they've been wising up. Watch for this whenever competitions are at altitude. That pressure pot is fantastic.
Then I realized something. The batter tastes excellent and can be a great sauce. When cooked, the cake is not so good as the batter tastes. It's sponge cake and its greatness relies on you make it soak up.
That's where the real attention must go -- to the syrup. Most recipes start with simple sugar and go from there. I think the challenge here is concocting a fantastic and unique syrup, possibly with some kind of alcohol. Rum and some kind of fruit for starters.
Hear me out, beat your eggs longer. I used to have this same problem with genoise. I literally would watch the cake rise and then collapse in the oven at about the 20 min mark with the oven light on.
The whole point of heating and beating the eggs is to denature them. You are applying as much energy to the eggs as fast as possible in order to break up their strands. When the eggs coagulate in your batter at about the 20 min baking mark, if they are not fully denatured (strands are totally broken), then the coagulation of the eggs will tighten all those strands and pull the cake in on itself.
Beat the eggs until soft peaks. If you can not get to soft peaks, then start over - heat the eggs to 120 F, then beat on the highest speed for close to 8 minutes. Ribbon stage IS NOT ENOUGH. All those videos of people just beating the eggs to ribbon stage and then having a perfectly baked cake are BULLSHIT. Ribbon stage means the eggs are still flowing which means they have connected strands and are NOT DENATURED. You should get to basically soft peaks - AS FAR AS THEY WILL BEAT.
THE ENTIRE POINT OF HEATING THE EGGS AND BEATING THEM VIGOROUSLY IS TO DENATURE THEM SO THEY DO NOT COAGULATE IN CONNECTED STRANDS COLLAPSING YOUR CAKE.
Other sponge cakes do not collapse because the eggs are manually separated, then beaten separated and recombined - IE: lady fingers and chiffon. That is why they do not collapse because they are denatured completely before baking.
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